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We Will Get Through This

Jul 27, 2020

I recorded this episode in early July 2020, one year since I stepped away from being CEO of Box of Crayons and handed that responsibility over to today’s guest, Dr. Shannon Minifie.

Now, most so-called founder transitions end up on the rocky shores of defeat for two reasons. First, most founders are a little bit like me: kind of neurotic and egotistical and wanting to keep our fingers in the pie. And second, it’s just a really hard thing to hand over an organization that is in many ways an embodiment of you, your values, and the impact you want to have in the world.

So who did I trust with this and why is she doing such a brilliant job? In a word, Shannon Minifie is a Zenobia: a powerful, determined, unstoppable woman. Shannon began her career in academia, driven by her desire to be a part of conversations she thinks are important. In 2016, she joined Box of Crayons and started a career in corporate learning and development. Three years later, she became the CEO. Shannon brings to this role over a decade of experience in education, an incredible enthusiasm, and her superpower: a depth and rigor of thinking that investigates everything to its core.

In our conversation, we discuss the three kinds of curiosity; the impacts curiosity culture can have on innovation, resilience, engagement, and connection; the relationship between curiosity and world-making; the importance of thinking of curiosity as a state, not a trait, and how that changes how you spark, peak, and cultivate it; and why curiosity is more important now than ever.

You can meet Shannon at

This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at

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